Q&A: Talking about the Southern Baptist sex abuse scandal with Pastor P.J. Tibayan

Deborah Netburn | Los Angeles Occasions

LOS ANGELES — Much more than 8,000 Southern Baptists will descend on Anaheim future 7 days for the annual conference of the most significant Protestant denomination in the United States — the initial time in 41 years that the two-working day assembly has been held in California.

The gathering will come just months right after the launch of an explosive 288-webpage report commissioned by the Southern Baptist Convention that discovered allegations of sexual abuse were being overlooked or included up for approximately 20 years by senior members of the SBC’s government committee.

In painstaking depth, the third-bash investigators at Guidepost Alternatives explain how leaders minimized or disregarded survivors’ stories of abuse, appeared a lot more involved with defending abusers than victims, denigrated survivors as “opportunists” or worse, and created staying away from any threat of authorized liability for the SBC the best precedence.

“The survivors with whom we spoke perceived the totality of these actions as a pattern of intimidation,” the authors wrote. “Moreover, this very poor remedy likely had a chilling influence on other survivors coming ahead to report abuse.”

The report was commissioned by the SBC executive committee at the 2021 conference with the assist of an mind-boggling the vast majority of delegates from Southern Baptist churches, identified as “messengers.” It was spurred in part by a 2019 investigation by the Houston Chronicle that discovered much more than 700 survivors of abuse perpetrated by hundreds of pastors, deacons, Sunday school academics, youth pastors and others connected with Southern Baptist churches.

Time has been set aside at the 2022 meeting to focus on the report and subsequent ways, and messengers will vote on whether to adopt some of the authors’ recommendations. These include setting up a new job power to put into practice sexual abuse initiatives, and the generation of a “Ministry Check” web site that would checklist credibly accused offenders linked with SBC church buildings to avert abusers from effortlessly relocating from church to church.

To realize how person pastors are processing the report ahead of the annual assembly on June 14 and 15, the L.A. Occasions attained out to P.J. Tibayan, 42, lead pastor at Bethany Baptist Church in Bellflower. Tibayan has worked as a pastor since 2002, and as a Southern Baptist pastor due to the fact 2008. He begun at his present-day church in 2014.

Tibayan, who has a single son and four daughters, requested that his wife Frances Tibayan sit by his side for the interview. She’s a survivor of sexual abuse and has spoken about it publicly.

This job interview has been edited for size and clarity.

Q: Had been you shocked by what was discovered in the Guidepost report?

A: I was not surprised, only since my spouse warned me this would be coming for our churches, and due to the fact this report is the finish of a three-yr discussion and not a report out of remaining discipline.

Q: How did you experience reading it?

A: A mixture of thoughts. Anger, unhappiness, panic for myself. I’m a sinner who feels the pull of temptation just like anyone else, and I need Jesus to help you save me from my sins just like everyone else. I required to scream. I was indignant at the men and women who have been doing it. I was experience remorse and considering what could I have finished in different ways. Guilt. It was a roller coaster of thoughts.

Q: What element of the report was the most tough for you to read?

A: Reading through about the pastor [former SBC President Johnny Hunt] who is credibly accused of sexually assaulting yet another pastor’s wife. I was not surprised due to the fact I know persons do that, and any individual is capable of performing that, but I never consider I have ever browse a engage in-by-participate in of how one thing like that unfolded.

Viewing that grooming, and how she froze and did not know what to do. I had these discussions with my spouse — how do we help our daughters not freeze? That was the toughest component to read as a parent, as a pastor and as a sinner who is susceptible to temptations just like any one else.

Q: How did you talk to your congregation about it?

A: We have a Google group e-mail that goes out to all 141 of our users. I sent them the full 288-web page report when it arrived out, and when I’d locate a excellent summary I’d send it and explain to customers, “Read these items, pray and text me or e mail me your inquiries.”

The pursuing Sunday evening I commenced by summarizing a piece I’d written for the internet site SOLA and conversing about righteous anger, self-assessment, lament, company duty and action. Then we experienced a Q&A and I questioned a few persons to pray what ever prayer God was top them to. They have been prayers of lament, sorrow, anger. Just conversing to God with raw emotion and processing.

Q: What sorts of concerns came up?

A: The final concern was alongside the lines of must we remain in the SBC or not. Other concerns I encouraged them to question were about me as a pastor. “Do you have inquiries about my integrity?” “We have 4 pastors in our church, do you wonder about any of us?” “Do you marvel about our children’s ministry?”

Our church is not new to this. We have a method of generating confident our customers know about reporting and things like that. But I’m like, hey, this is a time to talk to fresh new concerns, due to the fact you simply cannot study a report like that and not feel, “What about my leaders?” And as leaders, I never consider you should really be offended by that. That is honest match.

Q: Does your church have a course of action for reporting sexual abuse?

A: We have a couple various factors we do. J.D. Greer, the 2019-20 SBC president, wrote an report about how to get aid for sexual or domestic abuse, and we place that in our new member packet. We updated the hotline figures to L.A. County and Orange County, so you really don't even have to report to the church. You are free of charge to convey to the leaders as well, but you do not have to have our authorization to report it.

Also, when I do the membership job interview, I do check with folks about their have historical past, just to make sure they know I have methods right here. I’m not expressing you will be counseled by me if you are woman. I’m your pastor, I want to know, but only so I can position you in the appropriate way. I just need to have to know you are receiving help and that you are processing.

We also have a good deal of sisters who have their radar up — who sort of know if an individual is hurting in a specified way.

Q: Is that regular in most Southern Baptist churches?

A: I really do not imagine so. I feel it is increasing. 1 purpose it’s one of a kind to us is for the reason that of my wife’s situation. And, in a person of my earlier churches, when I was a employees pastor, I had to confront an individual in the church about this. I imagine that shaped me much too, to be additional mindful and not so naive. I’m still relatively naive in many techniques, but not in comparison to a lot of pastors.

Q: Did you discuss to God about it?

A: Sure, I did chat to God about it. I prayed about it on my possess, my spouse and I prayed about it, the church prayed about it, and we prayed about it with our small children.

Q: Did you get any responses?

A: Undoubtedly I cried out to the Lord, asking the Lord why. But I feel when an individual asks why there are various amounts to that issue. There are the intellectual good reasons like, give me a rationale. And there is also just the heartache of why — the affliction, the crushing psychological fat. I think I was inquiring a lot more from the latter, heartache cry, as opposed to the rationale.

Also, as I pray, it would seem God may possibly be making use of this report to awaken pastors and church buildings of all denominations to acquire experiences of sexual abuse much more seriously, to guard their individuals and kids a lot more vigilantly, to care for survivors additional compassionately, to do justice extra courageously and to wander with Him a lot more humbly.

Q: Your church is not leaving the SBC. Why?

A: When men and women question why we’re not leaving the SBC, I remind them that the cause this report is out is simply because of the SBC, simply because the handful of, handful of men and women who had been bottlenecking experiences about abuse were overturned.

The incredibly point that this report came out is not a indication that we are going in the improper way. It’s a indicator that we’re going in the correct course.

At the exact time, we’re not blindly adhering to the SBC forever. If they decide to go in the completely wrong path, we are delighted to pull out. It is not a nonnegotiable for us to remain Southern Baptist.

Q: What reforms do you want to see the SBC make?

A: There are two suggestions from the sexual abuse endeavor pressure that will most very likely access the flooring to vote on subsequent Tuesday. Just one is to start off an administrative entity to study and put into practice the most helpful tips and steps. The next is the development of a public databases that would include things like all those who have been credibly accused of sexual abuse.

I would also love for us to make restitution for survivors who have been maligned publicly and dismissed persistently over the yrs.

Q: What do you assume will happen next week?

A: Everything I’m viewing on line, the back again conversations I’m acquiring, the Zoom calls we’re getting — I think 90% are heading to vote to approve the resolutions. But all it normally takes is 50% moreover 1 for it to go. I would be stunned if they really do not go.